tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post114810449227169665..comments2023-04-21T01:11:17.929-07:00Comments on Edmonton Oilers Legends: Wayne GretzkyJoe Pelletierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01906327400250923397noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-10121831320626629262017-05-08T22:20:39.368-07:002017-05-08T22:20:39.368-07:00Gretzky was,and is, my greatest childhood hero. He...Gretzky was,and is, my greatest childhood hero. He is the best offensive hockey player of all time.<br /><br />But if you're going to talk about one player offensively dominating a major world sport; transcending it as no other ever has, you need to talk about Don Bradman in cricket. Gretzky was the greatest hockey player ever ... but no one has ever dominated a game like Bradman.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03867793304433954696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-88195736112962078232015-12-28T09:24:51.691-08:002015-12-28T09:24:51.691-08:00Hands down the GREATEST TEAM SPORT ATHLETE of ALL-...Hands down the GREATEST TEAM SPORT ATHLETE of ALL-TIME and with out question the Greatest Hockey Player EVER. There will always be someone to debate that Lemieux, Orr, or Howe were better. This is an easy debate and it comes down to 3 areas. First, statistics, Gretzky wins on pure numbers. Two, Longevity, Gretzky wins because he played twenty seasons with no major injuries or consecutive retirements. Orr and Lemieux got sick or injured and couldn't continue. Howe retired and came back a lot. In the era that Gretzky played there were tons of great talented players but they couldn't make the cut on the physical play. Gretzky endured the same physical play as Orr, Bossy and Lemieux did and he found a way to survive and thrive. Third, Gretzky changed, saved and expanded the popularity of the game like no other player did. Hockey was great in the '80's and 90's and all due to the "Great One". Hands down the greatest ever and I am so grateful to have seen him play. <br />I saw Orr, Howe and Lemieux and they were awesome to watch and great in their own way but there was something about 'the great one" he was just better. He may not have been blessed with phenomenal athletic ability or physical presence. He didn't need it. He wasn't super fast but he didn't need to be. He was just smarter than everyone else. By his own words "I don't go to where the puck is, I go to where it's going to be." No player since Gretzky has done that better yet and I don't think anyone ever will. He still holds 60 NHL records most of which will probably never be broken. <br />Remember Gretzky made all the players around him better even Lemieux credits Gretzky with his hockey maturity after the Canada Cup series. At the end of the day the game is about scoring, you can't win if you don't score and Gretzky scored or helped his team to score more than anyone else. BEST EVER.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-2556710705936215282014-10-20T13:27:19.227-07:002014-10-20T13:27:19.227-07:00I don't think we should forget about the many ...I don't think we should forget about the many Great Soviet Players that should be included among the Greatest Players ever. If the Officiating had not been so biased against the Soviet Union Team during the 1987 Canada Cup they would have won that Tournament with perhaps the Greatest Players and TEAM that has ever Played Ice Hockey! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-46693263246873052662014-05-25T15:02:46.530-07:002014-05-25T15:02:46.530-07:00Jordan, Gretzky, Aaron, Ruth and all others mentio...Jordan, Gretzky, Aaron, Ruth and all others mentioned?<br /><br />May I make the case for a Dutch woman, Ester Vergeer, who was undefeated in wheelchair tennis for 470 matches, and who's winning tally, including a mind-boggling <b>42 Grand Slam titles</b>, is unlikely to ever be surpassed - see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_Vergeer" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-12230168599014694492014-03-02T06:00:57.192-08:002014-03-02T06:00:57.192-08:00Lemieux should be included in that conversation as...Lemieux should be included in that conversation as well with Gretzky, Howe, and Orr. Every other player in the history of the league plays second fiddle to those four.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-19795714753624852412014-02-22T11:58:57.858-08:002014-02-22T11:58:57.858-08:00 As good as Orr was, one could argue that the 9 se... As good as Orr was, one could argue that the 9 seasons he played were in his prime. Take the 9 best seasons the great one ever produced, and in an era with A LOT more talent. Gretzky blows Orr in to outer space. Gretzky was too smart for Orr, and had a hockey 6th sense Like no other.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997985700371448962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-48473233948959657052014-02-08T00:59:02.612-08:002014-02-08T00:59:02.612-08:00Gretzky is the greatest forward to ever play. Ther...Gretzky is the greatest forward to ever play. There was hype about his tremendous talent at such a young age and did he ever exceed the hype. Gretz also had a bigger impact on the development and popularity of hockey than anyone before or ever will. Orr was the greatest defenceman but to say if he didn't have injuries he would have done this or that is a farce. A legacy is also based on your longevity and Orr's skills would have also declined eventually like anyone else. To say that any of them were a better athlete than Michael Jordan was is a joke, 6 NBA championships, MVP all 6 times and never lost in the finals. My money would be on Jordan.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764177995893841441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-40466969499368005082014-01-22T15:07:01.730-08:002014-01-22T15:07:01.730-08:00I am in Boston. Bobby Orr was #1.
I saw his whole...I am in Boston. Bobby Orr was #1.<br /><br />I saw his whole career and Wayne's.<br /><br />I had season tickets in the old Boston Garden for 20 yrs.<br /><br />A few thoughts. Wayne was completely<br />healthy. Bobby played on two very bad knees.<br /><br />On Wayne, I was at a game in the late 80's and witnessed something<br />I would never forget.<br /><br />Ray Bourque had the puck behind his own net and began to carry it out. Wayne pursued Ray AND COULD NOT CATCH UP TO HIM. Ray passed<br />the puck off at the Edmonton blue line.<br /><br />If Wayne could not catch up to RAY, going full tilt on the small ice surface in Boston, he would never have caught Bobby.<br /><br />Edmonton won more Cups than Boston because the Oilers had GrantFuhr, and Boston had the inconsistent<br />Gerry Cheevers in 1971 who gave up 12 goals in games 6 and 7 of their 1971 playoff with Montreal.<br /><br />In 1974, Gil Gilbert was outplayed by the Flyer's Bernie Parent.<br /><br />Right there were two winnable Cups.<br /><br />But ask yourself one question when comparing Orr and Gretzky. If Bobby played forward and his knees<br />were good, his scoring numbers would have been off the chart!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519667368952578174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-57466954274985535882013-08-24T18:05:05.464-07:002013-08-24T18:05:05.464-07:00I,to am not sure when these comments were made how...I,to am not sure when these comments were made however you can't compare Bobby Orr to Wayne Gretzky they are two entirely different players, who played two entirely different positions, my thoughts are the reason(s) people say Orr is a better player or is just as good as Wayne is because Orr could score and control the game, and you're right he could but the game has dramatically changed therefore it affected the play - Gretzky on the other hand literally did what ever he wanted for as long as he wanted, you could never catch him , same goes with Orr, Gretzky was not a good skater but he'd turn you inside out with his stick handling, at the end of the day NO ONE can touch Gretzky he was dangerous with the puck whereas Orr played with it a lot, Gretzky did his job and did it well, sorry guys Gretzky was amazing who did amazing things with that puck...finally Gretzky was protected we all know that but when you're dealing with head hunters who want to take your head off well can you blame Mcsorley for wanting to watch the back of their best player / franchise player. ..i would !thinbluelinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-29923144952954452092013-05-04T19:13:04.032-07:002013-05-04T19:13:04.032-07:00The person who talked about BOBBY ORR and the beer...The person who talked about BOBBY ORR and the beer league days doesn't know what he's talking about! Do your RESEARCH!<br /><br />Gretzky the best...Absolutely NOT! He was great in the weak watered down NHL...which is still in effect! <br /><br />He is not even on my first or second all-star team of all-time! Better than Bobby Orr? If you say so! <br /><br />Though, he had incredible aerobic capacity that could have him skate for long periods of time without being tired.<br /><br />Ahead of Orr, Howe, Richard, Harvey, Lindsay, the Big M or Hull...I don't think so. You are fantasizing! Let's also add Sprague Cleghorn, James Campbell and Harry Smith ahead of Mr. Gretzky. Thank-you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-11408552283749083052013-01-04T21:08:42.657-08:002013-01-04T21:08:42.657-08:00If we could pose an all-time ultimate hockey lineu...If we could pose an all-time ultimate hockey lineup, it would look like this:<br /><br />Howe-Gretzky-Ovechkin (top line)<br /><br />Orr-Bourque (top defensive pair)<br /><br />Brodeur (starting goal)<br /><br />Start with the best playmaker of all time and pair him with two mighty power forwards, one a lethal goal-scorer with an unmatched arsenal, the other a tough, two-way warrior, and you just might have an unstoppable force that can go through any defense.<br /><br />Add the two best blueliners of all time, the picture becomes clearer. Both guys can team up to stop any oncoming force and can also trigger off the top line with nifty passes. Orr could even lead the charge forward.<br /><br />In goal, putting Brodeur over Roy was difficult, but I chose him for his puck-handling. Acting as the third defenseman, he can further spring the offense loose with nifty passes - opponents know that if they can get past Orr and Bourque, they'd better score on their first attempt, because if Brodeur stops them, he'll pass the puck off to Orr, who will get it to Gretzky, and it's then in the other net.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-2339020712095674172012-05-11T16:38:59.668-07:002012-05-11T16:38:59.668-07:00Gretzky's Offense was his Defense. He didnt ne...Gretzky's Offense was his Defense. He didnt need to play defense cuz he was far superior offensively. Those Records wont be touched.<br /><br />But i wouldnt dare say he was BETTER then Michael Jordan. Jordan was clutch, Jordan wouldnt lose. 6 time world champion. 2 threepeats. After the first threepeat he retired in his PRIME because there wasnt enough challenge. Then Came out of Retirement and at an older age and won 3 more nba titles, then retired again, on top, again...<br /><br /><br />And we dont mention the Washington wizard days, didnt happen....StarKillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06149902067522275677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-44194569998368647142012-03-20T07:51:34.589-07:002012-03-20T07:51:34.589-07:00Orr sucked. He played during the beer league days...Orr sucked. He played during the beer league days when players weren't athletes. If you could skate you were the best. During expansion the NHL didn't have enough professional players to fill the expansion team rosters, so they put sweaters on regular guys. This was the competition for Orr. Orr was too small to play in Gretzky's era and beyond. Gretzky was the most amazing player ever to grace the ice. Some thought he was from another planet because he could do what no other player did or could. Plus Orr was protected by the Big Bad Bruins, the goon squad. Orr had more body guards that Carter had liver pills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-77193109600029511262012-03-11T12:03:28.903-07:002012-03-11T12:03:28.903-07:00I grew up in the Wayne and Mario era. I can't ...I grew up in the Wayne and Mario era. I can't say they were better than players like Orr and/or Howe because I never grew up watching them. All I have to say are two things. 1) If Howe and/or Orr were better than Wayne and/or Mario the must have been pretty darn special players. 2) When I was a kid I didn't know I was witnessing two players that only come around once in a life time. Every time Wayne and Mario touched the puck I got butterflies because I knew, odds are, something great is about to happen. Nobody in the NHL has done that for me since. As good as Crosby is, he doesn't even come close. Hopefully someday, someone will come along and give us butterflies again.RoboCopnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-43508056706463325662011-11-30T05:03:28.986-08:002011-11-30T05:03:28.986-08:00Being too young to remember even Gretzky's Oil...Being too young to remember even Gretzky's Oiler days, it leaves me impartial to judge who is the greatest. It seems to be a generational thing, 20 years ago, Howe was considered the greatest ever by my teachers and that was the consensus for people of that age since that is what they grew up with. Even Maurice Richard would rank as high as 2nd greatest in most informal polls back then.<br />Very few people now consider Howie Morenz or other old timers the greatest ever or even in the top 10.It makes sense since there are fewer mentions as time goes by.<br /><br />Orr takes the title with baby boomers, the late 60's/70s sure seemed great in all other aspects (cars, movies, music and culture) so maybe they remember how good they had it themselves more than Orr's greatness.<br /><br />The great thing about Wayne is there is no what if's as there are with Mario or Bobby. Wayne missed very few games and when he retired, there was simply no juice left.<br />He played with the best offensive dynasty, had many guys on his team and the whole league defending him and gave it his all in a complete career.<br /><br />Mario Lemieux had very few of these favorable conditions and did not have the media and referee adoration that Wayne had. His injuries in his era of domination (1988-1997) cost him many points and he is now only considered top 5 right now, but that will change with time. <br /><br />Hockey should be viewed in eras and each one of these players were the best of their own.<br /><br />I would rather point out some counterpoints to each in the pantheon.<br /><br />Gordie Howe is the greatest for pre-expansion hockey, <br />To play the devil's advocate, i will say that it's easier to stake a reputation and instill fear in the hearts of your opponents when you only play 5 teams for 50/70 games and only having to travel a few hours by train. Not having any of the Best Europeans to play against makes his aura diminish with every generation. <br />He does seem like the definition of what a hockey player should be, but his name and greatest ever are slowly going to stop being mentioned together over time.<br /><br />Bobby Orr is without a doubt the greatest defenseman to every play. <br />The downside to his achievements is the quality of players he faced. The league doubled in size overnight and there were 6 teams that were mere spectators, not opponents. If you add 2 perennial bottom dwellers in the Original Six ,the fact that a large contingent of quality players and coaches were in the WHA and a lack of Euro or Russian players to face put Orr the best of his era only, not of all time. The dekes, the open ice left to him, the complete lack of strategy by opponents makes that whole era look very bad. Goal-tending was seen as an afterthought. Orr looks good in those highlight reel clips but if you watch a full game from the seventies, you can tell most players would not stand a chance in the modern era.<br /><br />The downside to Wayne is that he was always handled with care, had it his way more often than not and never had to worry about getting crushed by an opponent. The ingredients are almost too perfect, the oilers were young, hungry and the team was destined to win. What hurts him is the quality of the goaltending, especially in the early 80's was still pretty bad.<br />However, there were now European superstars and the WHA disbanded. <br /><br />For Mario, it's his attitude that hurts him. While he's matured, he was seen as an anti-Wayne at the time. Because he was big, he would not need protection, which proved to be a mistake. <br />He had huge pressure to win the Cup in 91 and some people would still not rank him as the best because of his injuries and the time off he took. <br /><br />Wayne and Mario are personally my top 2, but i will say it's only for the 80's and 90's.<br />To compare their NHL with Bobby Orr's would not be fair to either of them.David Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271793443806570805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-10014187283380319422011-03-19T00:05:51.325-07:002011-03-19T00:05:51.325-07:00Orr was absolutely the most fabulous hockey player...Orr was absolutely the most fabulous hockey player ever. A true game changer. Won 2 Stanley Cups in 9 yrs and set 8 NHL records He was the best until Gretzky showed up and not only changed the game, but rewrote the NHL record book. He left with 61 records. Oh, Gretzky also had 4 Stanley Cups in his first 9 yrs for those who like to compare.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-35600488377932643732011-03-06T13:52:08.499-08:002011-03-06T13:52:08.499-08:00An amazing talent in the game of hockey. I never k...An amazing talent in the game of hockey. I never knew about some of the things you mentioned. Been meaning to read Gretzky's autobiography for a while now.Jimhttp://www.woodworkingbook.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-75654554750855731122010-08-31T11:46:33.482-07:002010-08-31T11:46:33.482-07:00Gretzky has more accomplishments that any other at...Gretzky has more accomplishments that any other athlete in sports, however there is a guy who could have possibly had more if only he had played a full career and that's Bobby Orr. Orr was further ahead of other defenseman in his generation than Gretzky was ahead of other forwards in his. Ex: in '87, Gretzky won the scoring title by 69% over the 2nd scoring forward (183 to 108). In '71, Orr had 139 pts, the 2nd defenseman had 63 for a difference of 121% or well over double the 2nd guy. I don't even know if this was his most dominant season, I simply chose to look up the stats from that year cus that's the year in which he had his career high, but there could have been a year in which he didn't score as many points but was further ahead of the 2nd guy. Gretzky has more accomplishments cus he played longer but in the short time he was there, Orr dominated the game like no one else ever did, even Gretzky.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-23599758245699007052010-05-12T13:14:05.389-07:002010-05-12T13:14:05.389-07:00Go Wayne Gretzky! He kicks ass!Go Wayne Gretzky! He kicks ass!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-32663234438417246752010-02-17T05:59:58.236-08:002010-02-17T05:59:58.236-08:00The most phenomenal player in any sport in the 20t...The most phenomenal player in any sport in the 20th century - as measured by the distance by which a player's achievements dominate all others before or since - was Sir Donald Bradman in the sport of cricket, not Jordan, Ruth or Gretzky. Sport does exist outside North America. Having said that, Gretzy was of similar genius. As a child, I was amazed by his exploits. Ice hockey does not make the sporting radar in Australia, but Gretzky's fame was worldwide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-74916442797201980662010-02-06T18:19:30.472-08:002010-02-06T18:19:30.472-08:00In response to the Gretzky vs. Orr debate, we'...In response to the Gretzky vs. Orr debate, we'll say this:<br /><br />Orr was a great player because he could do everything (and at top speed). Gretzky was a great player because he knew what to do on the ice, and how to involve his teammates.<br /><br />I once thought Orr was simply a Pavel Bure playing defense, someone who would rush up the ice and make individual offensive plays. Actually, no. I saw some of his videos, and Orr, unlike Bure, always got his teammates involved, which in turn led to Boston's nifty offense. And he apparently could catch his opponents whenever he loses the puck.<br /><br />Gretzky couldn't match Orr's speed, but I'd bet if their respective teams played each other, he could outsmart Orr, and somehow find a way to beat him (ie. pass to Kurri or Coffey, or send Coffey or Lowe after him).<br /><br />But Gretzky was also an underrated defensively. He has played defense as well as forward (center, LW, and RW) during his childhood. He rarely defends opponents one-on-one, but he knows how to co-ordinate his defensemen and help them play their position better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-20674104370145284612009-04-15T09:08:00.000-07:002009-04-15T09:08:00.000-07:00Great article. I grew up watching the Gretz, so t...Great article. I grew up watching the Gretz, so to me, he is the greatest.<br /><br />I also like the Gretzky vs Orr debate -- unless they ever played against each other, we'll never know who was truly better. That debate is a generational one.CadorBolinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-22172768055585299562008-12-20T13:28:00.000-08:002008-12-20T13:28:00.000-08:00The "Great One" is such an appropriate name for Wa...The "Great One" is such an appropriate name for Wayne Gretzky. Great is not the word! I saw Howe, Orr, Hull, Lemuiex,they were all great players but Wayne is the greatest skilled hockey player ever! Elsewhere in this blog I rated Howe #1 all time only because he could do it all in the six team NHL. That includes fight and intimidate, and his longevity is legendary but the greatest hockey talent I have ever seen bar none was Wayne Gretzky! The mans skill level far exceeds anyone else. Who do you know has scored four, count em, 200 point seasons? Nobody! Nobody has ever scored 200 points other than "The Great One"!How could a man his size and strength completly dominate an entire league like he did. To me he is an anomaly! I mean it can't be explained. I bet if you asked Wayne he would probably tell you the same thing. I don't know how I did it, but he did!Greg Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04788234518961088684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-4100504811032696212007-03-14T00:01:00.000-07:002007-03-14T00:01:00.000-07:00Great site! I grew up as a huge Orr fan...through...Great site! I grew up as a huge Orr fan...through the years I wondered if I may have youthfully imagined his complete dominance and spectacular greatness. Since then I have watched tons of old games and looked over his scoring stats. No imagination. +597 in 596 games....they didn't tally this stat his first year. If he played, the Bruins pretty much started the game 1-0. One blog mentioned that his career was ended after he got hurt. His career started and he got hurt the first and second season, then he dominated the next 8 years during which he had 6 knee operations. I have never lost this argument using the following stat. 5 Orrs beat 5 Howes, or Gretzky, or Mario. I honestly feel 5 Orrs beat the next 5 greatest all stars playing their own positions. Speed, power, passing, a wicked shot, block shots, could fight with the best, humility. Love him, really missed him when he retired. Can't wait till a defenceman wins the scoring title again...ha ha ha, will never...ever ever happen again...think about it he won it twice and finished a close 2nd 3 times and a close 3rd another. Beaten each year by Esposito, who as good as he was....lets be realistic was privy to some of the most spectacular passes, deflections, tip-ins as a result of Orr carrying the puck end to end and sending him a gift wrapped present. Never again. Cherry, Fisher, Howe, Schmidt, Bobby Clark and I were not imagining anything. As the Cherry video says....Nobody does it better.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03255022700550157668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28367797.post-46805338525220667632007-02-19T13:50:00.000-08:002007-02-19T13:50:00.000-08:00I have no idea how old these comments are; but I c...I have no idea how old these comments are; but I couldn't resist comment. <BR/><BR/>The opinion that Bobby Orr was much more dominant than Gretzky made me pause. I did not see Bobby Orr play in his day...I wasn't even born. I did see Gretzky. In this regard, I know statistics cannot tell the whole story. But if statistics are to be quoted....they ought to be taken from a proper basis. <BR/><BR/>Bobby Orr only played 9 full seasons, before getting injured. So his career statistics, and the averages of his career statistics are taken from 9 seasons in which Bobby Orr was in his prime. Gretzky play around 20 seasons - and when he faded from his 'prime', his statistics dipped and likewise did his averages. Without question, his plus/minus would have dipped in his later years - and significantly at that. <BR/><BR/>But...if you were to compare the first 9 years of Bobby Orr compared to the first 9 years of Gretzky...the story of statistics is laughable. In his 9 full seasons, Bobby Orr played 621 games compared to Gretzky's 704. Bobby Orr recorded 869 points. Wayne Gretzky recorded 1624 points...which nearly doubles Bobby Orr. I won't even both to figure out the averages, it's not even close. Gretzky was averaging well over 2 points per game. Gretky retired with the best 'points-per-game' average in the history of the NHL. Sorry, to say Bobby Orr had a better PPG average is not correct. Not even close. <BR/><BR/>Bobby Orr was a defenseman. Gretzky was a forward. Without doubt, to compare stats to stats is not possible and fair. We will never know how Bobby Orr would have continued if he were healthy, and what his 'decline' would have looked like. But I say, if you just take the first 9 years and not allow the decline of Gretzky from his prime to detract from the impression you have of Gretzky's legacy, then....how can you not say Gretzky was the most dominant between these two. I believe this is the most difficult factor - we only have memories of Orr at his best. We unfortunately got to see the inevitable and gradual decline of Gretzky. So our impression of Gretzky seems flawed. <BR/><BR/>And the Pond hockey comparison?? As I said, I never saw Orr on a game-to-game basis. But Gretzky would control the puck in the offensive zone and made the other team look like pilons. That's too much of a abstract to possibly make a factor. And to say Orr was the fastest skater ever....impossible statement. <BR/><BR/>ANyhow....this is just my opinion. Regardless...these two men wereJamesRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04315467463719597595noreply@blogger.com